Fishing

[mikemeister_admin]

Here is a picture of a friend of mine fishing.  The first picture is the original, and the second is what I've done to it, but it is not what I was trying to accomplish.

If you look at the original, you can tell that the sun is just rising by the color of their skin, the colors on their backs, and the heavy shadows.  My friend wanted to preserve the effect of the sun coming up, but he wanted to see if the image could be improved upon.

In the second image, everything looks better, but the sunrise effect is mostly lost.  I don't think there is much that can be done without destroying the effect he wants.

[mikemeister_admin]

Backgnd copy- very slight noise removal and healing brush
Backgnd2-Lab CM,neutral on front of T shirt
Backgnd3-off,wasimage>adjustments>photo filter set to warming filter85 boosted to 50
Backgnd2-4 - photo filter set to orange at 50  merge visible
Last step- open image,magic wand to select hot spots on T shirts,CM Lab to reduce lightness about four points.
                I used a selection because  when I applied the effect to the whole image the sky darkened too much.GregM

[mikemeister_admin]

It would be a lot easier if CM's help menu was explained in more detail.  After wasting 45 minutes trying to figure out how to open the hue clocks like I see everyone doing, I finally figured it out. 

It would be a lot easier to do if instead of having to right-click on the picture, then select "Mark", then on the mark, right-click and select "Info" to bring up the hue clock, why not just right click on the picture and have the option to add a hue clock?  How would someone know that they need to place a mark on the picture, then go to that mark and bring up info?  No where does it say hue clock.  For dummies like me, that is vague and confusing.

When you use the Help file, under hue clocks, it just tells you what they indicate, not how to open them.

I still don't understand how they are used anyway.  So if I set a hue clock to the sky, what am I supposed to see?  The sky isn't pure blue, or white (on a cloudy day) or red at sunset, so how do you know what the clock is supposed to read?  I would think it would be made up of many colors, so what good is the hue clock?...to just tell you what amounts of each color are present in that spot?  So what?  What can you do with that information?

I think this is going to be too far over my head for me to make any sense of.  I'm finding the terminology to be difficult to understand.  To be honest, I make adjustments to pictures so that they look okay to me.  I'm really not interested in numerical values of colors to try to get it right.  If it looks good, then that's good enough for me.  I think that's how most people work on pictures anyway.....they go by how it looks.

Then there is the whole RGB or LAB thing.  There is no way I'd ever know which one to use or why.  I've never used LAB mode for anything, so that is all new to me.  I don't understand the channels in LAB mode or how to use them.

I feel like there is way too much information being handed out in the class for me to absorb in such a short time.  It's not the class, it's me....I find that I have trouble learning things these days, so I need things to move at a snail's pace. (old age setting in I guess)

I think I'll go back to lurk mode.  I'll try to do the exercises, and if I don't understand something, I'll just skip over it like I've been doing.  I'll still learn some things....for me that's an accomplishment. ;)

[ggroess]

Art,

My apologies...Alt-Click brings the hue clock up.  Hold down the Alt-Key and click on the image...

Greg

[sjordan93436]

First, I am not a curvemeister.

Alt click gives a hue clock. Easy.  Next with options the hue clock can give numbers and graphical.

It is okay to correct by eye, BUT there are advantages to by the numbers.  Small color problems are hard to see by eye.  Why bother?  Well, if you boost the color, small problems become large.

Second reason, with a little practice, you can correct much quicker.

Third, (for me) there are problem images that are very difficult to correct by eye.

So if any of those issues are important, i.e. color boost, quick accurate corrections, or fixing difficult images then you should learn skills to do that. 

Look at the before and after of some of these drills.  Use PShop elements or Lightroom without curves and see the output.

LAB or RGB-  LAB can easily boost colors.  Run CM and wizard then run the color boost.  It will accentuate any "errors" in the color.  If the skin is (wrongly) red, it will turn REALLY red.  If color boost is good and you need it, then learn the skill.

People learn better if we are motivated!

[ggroess]

When you use the Help file, under hue clocks, it just tells you what they indicate, not how to open them.

I still don't understand how they are used anyway.  So if I set a hue clock to the sky, what am I supposed to see?  The sky isn't pure blue, or white (on a cloudy day) or red at sunset, so how do you know what the clock is supposed to read?  I would think it would be made up of many colors, so what good is the hue clock?...to just tell you what amounts of each color are present in that spot?  So what?  What can you do with that information?

I use the hue clocks to find impossible colors.  For instance a sky can be many colors but very rarely Purple for instance or Cyan those would make the sky look odd.  You would use a hue clock to find that value quickly and not just wonder "Why does the color just not look right?"  Also remember Art that we as human being have a fault n our sight system that allows us to make certain colors look right even when they are not.  small color casts can be "ignored" by our visual system.  Hue clocks prevent us from accepting a color as correct when the numbers say it is not.  Are they the be all and end all??  NO!  they are a tool to be used and sometimes ignored.  It is always about your choices.

I think this is going to be too far over my head for me to make any sense of.  I'm finding the terminology to be difficult to understand.  To be honest, I make adjustments to pictures so that they look okay to me.  I'm really not interested in numerical values of colors to try to get it right.  If it looks good, then that's good enough for me.  I think that's how most people work on pictures anyway.....they go by how it looks.

Art,
I started out making images "look good" but then I hit the wall so to speak where I could not fix some images or worse yet I was damaging them.  Your fishing image would be typical of the issues I was facing.  It does take some time and you need to be patient with the process.  At first the adjustments seem to not make sense but we all go through this and if at the end you choose not to use the process I completely understand.  To me it's a bit like adjusting the color on you TV you don't always know whats right but you sure know whats wrong.  CM provides the tools and process to fix whats wrong.

Then there is the whole RGB or LAB thing.  There is no way I'd ever know which one to use or why.  I've never used LAB mode for anything, so that is all new to me.  I don't understand the channels in LAB mode or how to use them.

Most images are RGB by default.  you have to force them into a space like LAB.  Let me roll out the advantages and see where we get.
1) In RGB color and brightness are linked. This means that if you change one of the channels in RGB you effect the color of the image.  RGB has great advantages in detail and subtle change but it cannot handle major brightness changes without loss of detail.  In LAB Color and brightness are separate.  Ok so big deal...Well it actually is and here is why.  Looking at the image of the balls in the pool....I was able to fix that image fast without having to worry about the color.  I adjusted the brightness and contrast without changing a single color in the image.

2) LAB has a wider color space. In RGB there are certain colors that do not look as good as they can or worse yet they become muddy when you try to adjust them.  In LAB you can adjust the colors to some very interesting extremes.  The idea is to be able to saturate the color as much as you need to without losing detail like you do in RGB.  LAB can do some very amazing things with color as we will learn later in the class. I was actually like you in many ways..I thought LAB was for the birds...Then I learned how to use it...It is my primary color tool now....

I feel like there is way too much information being handed out in the class for me to absorb in such a short time.  It's not the class, it's me....I find that I have trouble learning things these days, so I need things to move at a snail's pace. (old age setting in I guess)

I will not be rushing you to learn this stuff.  The class information stays out here for you for over a year.  We present it in weekly blocks.  You take it in at your pace.  If we confuse you ask questions...I'll do what ever I can to help you. 

I think I'll go back to lurk mode.  I'll try to do the exercises, and if I don't understand something, I'll just skip over it like I've been doing.  I'll still learn some things....for me that's an accomplishment. ;)

Please don't...your questions so far have been great and they are being read by all the class members...if they don't ask and you do then the information gets out here...If they lurk and you do too then you only get what is in the written materials.

We sometimes forget that the material we take as second nature is extremely specialized and hard to get at first.  Art, when my son is reading a new book that is assigned and he hates it I always tell him to give it 100 pages...I'll ask a similar thing of you...stick to it until the screen share session...If at that point you want to surrender I'll help you raise the white flag...but I have to tell you that age has never stopped me from teaching this stuff to everyone who wanted to learn it.  You are not the youngest but I bet you are not the oldest either...

Also remember that at the end of the week we post solutions with video.  These are very valuable and will hopefully clear the mists a bit.

Regards..
Greg

[ggroess]

And now for your image...

One of the tricks you will learn is that you can take an image through the CM process multiple times.  Once in LAB and once in RGB for instance to fix different problems.

I started in LAB with your image because I wanted to adjust the lightness to see what I could get out of the image.  Also having LAB in the tool box I know that one of the channels allows me to adjust Yellow and Blue separately.  Your description told me you wanted to keep the yellow light feel so i wanted to make sure I had enough yellow light to work with...B channel in lab  holds all the yellow in the world for you. 

I then took the image into RGB to set the neutral and the skin tones.  Since in RGB color and brightness are linked I know i can adjust the overall neutral and still set a skin pin on a dark skin area.  That is the screen shot posted and the second ACV file.

Art,
Please ask questions...To load the acv files save them to your desktop and then open your original in CM and click the "load" button and select the pass 1 curve.  After you have looked at it and see some of the changes click apply and re-open the image in CM and load the pass 2 ACV file. 

Greg

[mikemeister_admin]

I take it that there won't be a class discussing hue clocks, since they are already being used in discussions.  I appreciate your explanation of them, but I still don't understand them.

First, there is no pure color in the real world.  If you wear a brand new white tee shirt, but you are standing outside, the shirt will have other colors in it....maybe the red reflection from the bricks in the building in front of you, some yellow or orange from the sunlight, etc.  Since these colors are actually in the tee shirt in the picture, then when you place a hue clock on the shirt, you will see trace amounts of this, correct?  Why would you remove that if it's actually there?  Not to mention that removing it would change the other colors in the picture.

Okay, so you have a hue clock pinned to something....say the sky.  What can you tell from it?  There is no purple in the sky(as you mentioned), so how do you know the hue clock indicates purple when there is no purple on the hue clock?  Then, how do you get the hue clock to read the color you want....that is, however you saw on the hue clock that there was purple in the image, how do you change things to eliminate the purple so it no longer shows up on the hue clock?....and how do you know whether to use LAB or RGB?

See Greg, there is so much that needs to be understood with the software in order to use it properly, that I don't know if I'm coming or going.  I don't know where to start, what to do, how to do it, or why we do it. 

That's okay though Greg, I knew that before I signed up for the class.  I figured that if I was able to learn to use 1% of CM, then it would be more than I was using before, so I would come out ahead in the end. :)

[mikemeister_admin]

First, I am not a curvemeister.

Alt click gives a hue clock. Easy.  Next with options the hue clock can give numbers and graphical.

Yes, once you know that you alt-click to bring up the hue clock, it's easy, but if no one told you that, how would you go about bringing it up?

Then the hue clock gives you numbers, but what good are they if you don't know what they mean?

It is okay to correct by eye, BUT there are advantages to by the numbers.  Small color problems are hard to see by eye.  Why bother?  Well, if you boost the color, small problems become large.

Second reason, with a little practice, you can correct much quicker.

Third, (for me) there are problem images that are very difficult to correct by eye.

So if any of those issues are important, i.e. color boost, quick accurate corrections, or fixing difficult images then you should learn skills to do that. 

Look at the before and after of some of these drills.  Use PShop elements or Lightroom without curves and see the output.

LAB or RGB-  LAB can easily boost colors.  Run CM and wizard then run the color boost.  It will accentuate any "errors" in the color.  If the skin is (wrongly) red, it will turn REALLY red.  If color boost is good and you need it, then learn the skill.

People learn better if we are motivated!

The thing is, if you don't bother with those little adjustments to the picture, do you think anyone will notice?  No, they will be happy with the end result because no matter what you did to the picture, it will look better than what the original did.  That's the whole thing....most people won't notice that the finished picture has a slight color cast....or that the colors are slightly off.  To them, the finished picture will be great compared to what the original looked like.  Their eyes won't see the imperfections, so if it looks good to the human eye, that's all that matters, regardless of what the hue clocks indicate. ;)

[sjordan93436]

Numbers?

If RGB  then 100,100,100 is a neutral.  50,50,50  ---  0,0,0 black plugged.  255,255,255  white blown out.

LAB xxx,0,0 is a neutral.  positive warm, negative cold.   

Skies should not be cyan.  LAB-  b is negative,  a is near zero.  (can be slightly negative)

Faces - A and B  positive  A more than B except small children and light skin.

Greenery  -  A neg B posi.  B is more positive than a is negative

Curves are a graphical method to convert colors.  Move a curve and the color changes.  If it is on a 45 degree line, it is original. 

You can do something similar with the sliders of PS or PSE or ACR or LR.  It is quick and easy, but far less precise.  I would further argue that there are corrections that are impossible to do with sliders. 

So if you want to repair the impossible (some of them) OR you want more colorful images, you need curves.  And Curvemeister is a fine tool to do this.  Think of it as PS curves on steroids.  I am sure some of this stuff is like jibberish. 

I posted an image I could NOT correct with sliders.  Maybe someone could.  It was a one of a kind image, never to be repeated.  With sliders the faces had an impossible color.  I printed the bad corrections then got into PS so it would not happen again. 

Cars:  my car has four wheels, who cares what brand, blah, blah, blah,  but I can pull a trailer easily and drive through the fields.  Some some a four wheel drive pickup is a waste.  For some, it is nice.  For others, it is a necessity to do the job.  I could complain about my mileage and bulk and price.