Is mask active or not?

[derekfountain]

As you might have gathered, I'm having a play with masks... :)

There's a problem with the user interface which I'm having trouble putting my finger on. It's not quite clear what's going on when a mask is active. I think the underlying problem is that there is no real cue from CM3 as to when a mask is active and affecting the image or not. Have a look at the first screen shot attached. What's telling you that a mask is active on this curve operation? Only the extra tab on the curves pane AFAICS. Perhaps the mask curve should stay at the bottom of the curve pane when a mask is active, even when only a single channel curve is selected.

So I switch on the HiLite Mask which is supposed to solve this problem, but from the second screen shot below you can see it's not helping too much (especially when I start playing with the blue curve!). It's not clear what CM3 is affecting.

I'm not sure whether this is my inexperience with masks, or whether it's just not clear enough what's going on. As a suggestion, Mike, is it possible to replace the blue with black? If I can only see the areas of the image that are being effected, with the rest being hidden, maybe that would help.

This post is bit of a ramble. I'm not entirely sure what my point is. :)

[-default]

Yes, it's absolutely a problem.  I still find myself either clicking the mask tab, or dragging down the Lightness or RGB curve to see what turns black. 

More ideas on how to improve this.

1) have a mask thumbnail show in the ribbon when a mask is active. (medium)
2) a channel palette or ribbon, similar to Photoshop's, that has thumbnail's of all the channels, including the mask. (more effort)
3) user setting for the color and opacity of the mask highlight layer.  (easy)
4) an animated striped overlay - zebra mode - for the mask. (medium)
5) a toggle, similar to the Compare button, that temporarily disables the mask. (easy)

I can't promise any of these for release time, but you're right that it's an important issue.

[ggroess]

how about the mask image in the curve window instead of the histogram??

that way I would know the mask is active...

[-default]

There are two possible problems with that - one is that the mask curve would need to be visible to see it, in which case would  know there's a mask anyway.  The other problem, and probably the main one, is that creating a mask is one of the few situations where the histogram provides substantial leverage, and this is even more true when the threshold and hilight/shadow pins aren't available.

[ggroess]

hmmmph...

turn the histogram a different color??

There has to be a visual que that you can give the user.

[-default]

That would still require that the mask curve be visible - or do you mean change the color of all the histograms?

Another idea: a "Mask Compare" button that is only enabled if there is a mask.

[mikemeister_admin]

How about another little white mask icon placed beneath the curves, in the Curve window, that pops up when a mask is selected, and toggles back and forth showing mask and composite in the preview window?

modify message :)

I would love it if that white mask icon toggled three ways, and showed the mask carte.

But back to the business of testing for bugs, I know... I just downloaded the new version, and am extremely happy to see that the mask stays put when converting to different modes.  What an improvement! Good one.

[-default]

A triple toggle - not a bad idea.

[mikemeister_admin]

Here's my $.02, implementing both of first two.
1) user setting for the color and opacity of the mask highlight layer.  (easy)
2) a toggle, similar to the Compare button, that temporarily disables the mask. (easy)
   ***Note 1: This 2-way toggle button should be separate from the show mask button.
  ***Note 2: Also create a separate button for the mask carte, and another button for my suggested channel carte.
3) have a mask thumbnail show in the ribbon when a mask is active. (medium)
4) a channel palette or ribbon, similar to Photoshop's, that has thumbnail's of all the channels, including the mask. (more effort)
5) a  "Mask Compare" button that is only enabled if there is a mask.

Note: The current "Reset" button drives me nuts. It's the only way I can turn off a mask, but using this button means that I lose any curve adjustments I've made to the mask. >:( I just want to turn off the mask.

[-default]

> Note: The current "Reset" button drives me nuts. It's the only way I can turn off a mask,
> but using this button means that I lose any curve adjustments I've made to the mask.
> Angry I just want to turn off the mask.

There was considerable debate about the function of the mask button.  I won't say which side Gloria was in that discussion, but will instead say that I settled on the current functionality mainly as a matter of style.  My own mask curves are usually very simple and I usually want to try an idea quickly and start over. 

As I get more familiar with using the new capability, I'm finding that I've come around more to your point of view.  It would be nice actually to keep several mask curves around.  An example would be to compare using the Hue channel, with one curve, against using the b or a channel, with a completely different curve.

As a workaround for the time being, you could try copying the mask curve to the clipboard, and pasting it back after you reselect the mask.  Ugly, but perhaps more efficient than recreating the mask curve from scratch.

Meantime, thanks for your patience.  We'll get there, and your input is crucial.  Different things need to be tried to get the combination right.