Curvemeister Forum

mike placed a neutral on the snout. Is that the real world.? Should the snout be gray. I don't know.
Mike learned me, that black and white could be neutral.
First I got in the 200 % enlarge mode on the snout and placed there info mark and one on the black nose.
indeed the snout has more blue as the black nose.
then I made the decision to place 2 neutrals. One on the snout and one on the black nose.
this is possible in RGB mode.
Each neutral could individually be set on and of, and both on and of.
On the end I let both on.
After that a threshold in the RGB mastercurve and the the coupled neutrals a bit shifting upwards.
The last i did, because Mike did, but on my screen  it was not necessary.

Frits

Fritz,
The overall color looks much improved as well...

Mike is right the bear has a grey nose.  The black can be deceiving but it can serve as a neutral if you are certain it is truly black...
Greg

Fritz,
The overall color looks much improved as well...

Mike is right the bear has a grey nose.  The black can be deceiving but it can serve as a neutral if you are certain it is truly black...
Greg

Greg,

indeed what you say : "if you are certain it is truly black.." , I think it is. But why should I accept that the bear has a grey nose?
Because Mike said this ?  I will believe Mike has right this time.
But when I make pictures in the real world, I could not always ask Mike or the nose of a certain bear or other animal is grey ?
So , I choose for the thing what is nearly certain, that is the black nose.
In that , i have  more trust.
In the real world I must do it without Mike.

Frits

All good points...

It has more to do it think with Visual Sense...Does it make Visual sense that a brown bear would have a blue nose??

Greg

All good points...

It has more to do it think with Visual Sense...Does it make Visual sense that a brown bear would have a blue nose??

Greg

indeed not. But I investigated first the snout and the nose by placing mark info's.
both had more blue. The snout the most, that is right.
So  i choose both as neutrals to be sure.
But why should the snout be blue ?
the Bear has a brown pelt. At the nose the pelt is washed out.
But, I am not  sure in the real world without Mike, that ever Bear I met has a grey snout.
I must make the decision my self.
So I took the snout into account because Mike said it is gray.
But in the real world I must take the  decisions?
how do I do that. ?
On the other hand Mike has learned us that black and white could often be used to as  neutrals.
I do find now, that he teach us, when precisely you can use black and white as a neutral.
You agree ?

frits

I agree up to a point...I understand the direction you are looking for..I hope....

I would still go back to visual sense...Black does not always have enough pixel info to make a great neutral..underline great...but if the image has no other reference you can use black.

Indeed Mike gave away a neutal for you to use and get closer to the correct colors, but if you were not given the info would you stll think a brown bear should have a blueish snout??  I doubt it...

As to what to use...sometimes you got to guess sometimes it's obvious.

Greg

I actually have some other images of the same bear, taken without the glass barrier, that show the colors differently.  The bear's snout may be gray, or brown or even yellow, but Greg's point that it is not blue is the important one.

but if you were not given the info would you stll think a brown bear should have a blueish snout??  I doubt it...

As to what to use...sometimes you got to guess sometimes it's obvious.

Greg

Greg,
Of course, I should a bear not have a blue snout. But when  choose the black nose as neutral, then there is a big correction.
Perhaps there stays a resident color cast.
But the same is with the fruit metal frame. I choose the neutral mike gives me. But there is a residue color cast.
So, i find it sometimes difficult what to choose.
I said it earlier, I mus learn to take my discsions, but on basis of what ?
Frits

I would still go back to visual sense...does my choice look right?? sometimes I need a known cue..I'll open a color checker next to the image to see if I have a bias going on...


Black does not always have enough pixel info to make a great neutral..underline great...but if the image has no other reference you can use black.

I frequently use it myself...
Greg