Curvemeister Forum

And here are my holiday wreaths.  The first was with the medium black "cyan bump" adjustment.  The second was maximum black, K adjustment.

Brian,
My first attached image is done by taking yours and adding a neutral; otherwise you have pretty good control over the blacks and overall the image looks quite nice...  Just add a neutral.  Good Work...

My second attached Image is from your second image.  Lot's going on here let me try to explain...
First things first...
Again you need to set a neutral.  In CMYK like RGB the color will be shifting around as you adjust the image.  Having a neutral you can go to allows you to add Magenta and Cyan to the specific areas of the image you want to without upsetting the overall balance.

Next...The shadows block up really fast.  Try having a more subtle adjustment in the shadows. 

Lastly..When you go for the colors start by using your mouse to find out where on the curve the adjustment needs to go.  If you look at the "Cyan Bump" I added the bump but quickly brought the curve back to the middle so as to not spread the color shift all over the image.  I was more liberal with the Magenta adjustment since the red bricks also benefit from additional Magenta.

CMYK can be a difficult space to work in at first.  To me it is a "negative RGB" color space.  That is how I keep it straight in my mind.

Please try fixing these and re-posting...I really want to see them again from you...
Greg

Greg:

There are a few gaps in the explanation I need.  First, when do you set the neutral?  At the start of the work or at the end?  Presumably, as the start, but that adds a point to the curves which I assume I should not disturb, lest I lose my neutral, correct?  If so, I don't seem to be able to replicate the curves you are working with.

Also, finding a neutral is a bit of a challenge in this photo.  You used the tree branch but I could not find spot in which the color channels matched.

Finally, doesn't the end result look a bit flat?

The second example also shows some manipulation and uses of the hue clock.  Why did you make the manipulations you did and what about the points added by setting a neutral?  Also, it appears that you put a bump in the cyan curve.  How would I know to do that unless that was the suggestion.  It seems counterintuitive to me to resolve shadows with any of the color curves.  However, when I started fooling around with the K curve I didn't get very satisfactory results.

Brian

Brian,
Great questions...made me wake up more than my coffee....
I started from your image so at this point, I would say that you need to set the neutral and go from there.

In general I set the neutral, highlight and shadow at the beginning and make my adjustments from there.  Finding a neutral sometimes requires you to think out of the box...Remember Black and White can be neutral.  I found a spot on the tree by setting a neutral and shopping around with it.  If you have not watched this video yet you might want to....

www.curvemeister.com/video/greg/honest_abe.swf

You know, on my monitor the image did not look flat and there certainly is room for differences there.  I would say that you need to make it look good for your work flow and settings.  If you can see full detail in the "significant" shadows then go with your settings.  Same with the highlights.

In the second example, I wanted the blues in the middle of the desgn to come up a bit.  So using the mouse I found the portion of Cyan curve where the blue parts of the design live.  I then put a "bump" into the Cyan curve there.  As for "how did I know"  It was my goals for the image. 

Having targets for each image is one of the toughest ideas to get across to people but one that ends up making the most difference in the images.  For me, I start by looking objectively at the image.  What problems do I see, how do I think I can "fix" them, what compromises along the way will I have to make to get there..Sometimes I even write them down.  Mostly, I speak them out loud.  Drives my wife and kids nuts...

K in CMYK is what makes the shadows Black and adds depth to the colors that are there.  Remember K represents black ink.  You can make shadows with CMY, you just need more of each color.  For the print press more ink is a huge problem..makes the end product muddy looking.  The commercial solution is the K channel which gives the shadows depth, reduces the amount of CMY needed for overall saturation and is a handy tool for us to use to give the image snap...BTW it is also one of the best "Mask" making channels...when we get there... K can be a sledge hammer sometimes...or if you go slow a feather duster...

Greg