Questions upon questions....

[ggroess]

Well Art the answer involves using the hue clocks to help you...

So here we go...

Shot1.) Open the Image in RGB and set two hue clocks.  One in the Dark Blue and one in the Light blue.  Notice the readings..
In the light blue color  the Green channel is adding to the color (G=178) so we will have to go get rid of the green at some point.  The hue clocks are directing me at this point...I could use a PS tool like lasso to go get the shape as a selection and then open the sample pallet and figure out the RGB settings for the background and then make sure the number has the same values using a paint bucket or various other tools but why when I have CM open and ready...

Shot 2.) Right click on the number in CM and select "Mark"  This marks the curves grids in each channel with the location of the color I want to change. 

Shot 3.) adjust the green curve from the "marked" point by moving the curve to the left as shown.  This forces the marked point to move "up" as shown by the arrow in the grid The marked point is now at the top of the frame.  Notice the numbers have changed for the green sample point.  I have moved the green point down to 9 from the original 178. 

Shot 4) Adjust the blue channel as shown.  The upper and lower points are there to control the curve so that it does not twist all over the place and create unreal results.

The real change in this image is accomplished using the Green channel because most of the color difference exists there.  Only the hue clocks or a color sample point can tell you that. 

Greg

[mikemeister_admin]

I didn't know that you could right-click on the green in the hue clock and mark the number.  Why do you pull the mark in the green curve horizontally to the left?  If you move the mark anywhere on the curve and pull it in any direction to the left, you still get the same result.  Is there any reason to pull it horizontally to the left? (just wondering, that's all.)

Okay, so you have the mark in the blue channel, you grab it and move it which way?  I don't understand how you know where to place the other control points.  When I move the mark in the blue curve, the dark blue color changes in the entire picture.

[ggroess]

I didn't know that you could right-click on the green in the hue clock and mark the number.  Why do you pull the mark in the green curve horizontally to the left?  If you move the mark anywhere on the curve and pull it in any direction to the left, you still get the same result.  Is there any reason to pull it horizontally to the left? (just wondering, that's all.)

I pull the adjustment to the left because I have the most "room" on the curve to do that.  It really does not matter so long as the value changes.  Also for me it is shorter to go to the left edge from that point.    I just tested this in CM and it works either way.  In other techniques and images I find that shorter moves make it simple to keep things in control.

Okay, so you have the mark in the blue channel, you grab it and move it which way?  I don't understand how you know where to place the other control points.  When I move the mark in the blue curve, the dark blue color changes in the entire picture.

I'm going to break this one down with screen shots...
1) Start with the "mark" you placed on the Curves before.  In shot1 I have that point selected.

2)Because I want to change the value from 240 to 218 I have only 1 direction I can go...Up...Shot2.
When I do this the background drops out...to a darker blue..because every point on that curve has moved along with the selected adjustment point. 

3) I need to move it back.  I selected a point at about 170.  The grid markings give me that range as well as the numbers in the upper left of the grid. I move that 170 value straight back down until it hits 219.  Shot3. 

4) I can stop there but I like to clean up a bit and make sure the curve is pulled back to near the center I simply add a point that allows a comfortable curve back to the center line.  Shot4.  In other corrections this will be a very important part of the process; since we have no other details in this image we can get away with it.

wonderful questions....
Greg

[mikemeister_admin]

3) I need to move it back.  I selected a point at about 170.  How did you know to select a point at 170?

Never mind, I see the 170 in one of the hue clocks.

[ggroess]

In shot 2 I have an arrow from the hue clock with 170 circled over to the curve point.  That is where the current pixel value is located after your first adjustment....It has moved to 170.

Greg

[mikemeister_admin]

What I am not understanding is the leap from reading the hue clocks to placing control points.  I can't explain what I mean because I don't understand enough to know what to ask.  I'm missing something here, but I don't know what it is.  In other words, there is a gap.... hue clock to curve that I don't understand.

[ggroess]

Ok let me think on how we can make that connection....I will see what I can do there...

Greg

[mikemeister_admin]

Greg, I want to explain some things about myself here.  I rarely quit anything, and I try to persevere throughout to achieve what I want to achieve.  The thing is, I won't do whatever is necessary to achieve my goals if it's at someone else's expense.  I don't operate that way.  That was why I said I quit before.  I could see that my attempts to understand CM were coming at your expense.....you were (and still are) working overtime to try to help me understand CM.  I know you are trying your hardest to teach me what I lack here, and that is very much appreciated.  I just feel like I am taking up way too much of your time.  There are others here that need your time, and by spending so much time on me, you are depriving the others of your time....not to mention that you are losing time to do things that you might want to do at home.

Is there any way I can pay more for all of this extra time?  I would be happy to pay more for this.....you deserve to be paid for your time. (I belonged to a union for 35 years and our motto was, "8 hours of pay for 8 hours of work".  I still believe in that.....pay a man for his work.)

I may never understand CM, but I am willing to kill myself trying.  I do realize that CM can be a valuable tool for editing pictures, and that's why I want to learn how to use it.  If I can understand CM, and it can help me make a picture better, then it's worth it to me to keep plugging away at learning it.  I just don't want it to be at your expense.

[ggroess]

Art,
I appreciate your sentiment and your drive.  It is actually your drive which keeps me from throwing in the towel.  I also know that the questions I am answering for you will be re-used in future classes and are in fact helping others in this class.  You are not alone in confusion regarding the hue clocks and the curve grids...

One of my Primary reasons for teaching the class is the knowledge I gain from the class as well.  Nothing in the world teaches you what you do and do not know; like teaching something to others.  Because I teach this class, I learn it as well.  I know it seems odd but in the last 4 months my Image correction has had a for the lack of a better term "a revolution".  I have been challenged by students with questions that I had thought insignificant only to learn that by answering them I discovered something I had missed or set aside. 

Your questions have done some of that for me.  In fact your questions are opening doors to ideas about this class; and others that we are writing; that more than pay for the time I spend working on the solutions to your questions. 

I'm game to continue and work on this.  I know that I was a bit slow getting to Steve or others over the last few days but that is not because of you.  There are other factors as well.  Also remember that the other students are working at their own pace.  A few have sent me e-mail asking for more time as they perceive that they are falling behind. 

As a reminder to all...The forum board is open to you for well over 2 years.  If you post a question I see it...I will also answer it if possible...
Greg

[mikemeister_admin]

My biggest hurdles to understanding CM are.....how you relate the hue clocks information to the curves, where to place the control points on the curves, how many control points to use, and how much to pull the curve line.(and in which direction.) 

I think that I could figure out how much to pull the curve line and in which direction if I knew where to place the control points and how many control points to use.  This is the brick wall that I keep running into.  I have been running into this wall for many years, and because of that, when I run into it now, I want to just walk away because I know that I've fumbled around with this for a long time with no progress, and running into it again will just aggravate me, so I walk away.